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t20 and Hellmar speak on recent events

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 12:05:00 - [1] Originally by: Eron Lygera Thats why I call the "leave if you dont like it" card. SO you don't like us being mad about this? then why don't you leave?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 13:25:00 - [2] Originally by: Eron Lygera I dont care how mad you are. Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 13:28:00 - [3] Originally by: Eron Lygera Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: Eron Lygera I dont care how mad you are. Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot. Read my post again: I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons. You mean the reasons of why we are mad?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 14:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Eron Lygera Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: Eron Lygera Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: Eron Lygera I dont care how mad you are. Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot. Read my post again: I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons. You mean the reasons of why we are mad? Yes... you posting with your alt suggests that its more than just bitterness at T20. Hum, interesting... let me analize: you posting with your alt suggests that its more than just bitterness at T20 Since you categorically say I'm an alt and you are defending T20 so much, I wonder... are you T20's alt? Do you have access to the DB so you know what characters I play more with and because of that you can say I'm an alt? or maybe are you a fellow dev? And anyway, what's all that "bitterness @ T20" thing? I don't even know who T20 is. A few hours ago I belived ppl were refering to the Tech 2 lottery. Didn't knew there was a player with that name. I was pointed to this thread and I'm expresing my opinion like everybody else. The reasons why I'm mad are posted in this thread by multiple players many times over. I'm sory if you don't understand why ppl are mad about this after more than 1500 posts.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 14:09:00 - [5] One thing that will be tough for me. I work in real life with a big group of gamers. Everybody is an MMO hardcore gamer @ the office. But I'm the only one playing EVE. I'm always bragging about why EVE is much better. But now they have new ammunition against me/EVE.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.10 15:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Sinlare Originally by: Dez Erichs SO goddamn angry, I'm going to regret this later.... but: As for BoB and BoB alts: I see that it is finally sinking into some of the leadership. The first reactions are to distance themselves from t20. Dread'Pirate Jesus is obviously doing his very best to diffuse the issue, to no effect, and only appears comical. I'm certain the majority of the grunts have no idea what's going on in any case. I WANT TO MAKE THIS CLEAR TO YOU AND BREAK THROUGH THE BOB SMUGNESS: I avoid smacking in local, but I'm so angry right now, how could I pass up saying "Did you buy that Vaga with dirty money". "Did you buy that Snake set that you so obviously own with dirty money." "Oh, you popped me with a Sabre using T2 ammo going 15 km/s, do you really think that's some sort of achievement, cheater?" Your reputation is at stake. Everything you built for the past 4 years is at stake. Everything! Before you post in here with an alt, keep in mind that every single player in here that sees a pro-BoB or pro-t20 post in here will think it's a lie. Your credibility is moot. Gone. Done. Whatever respect you might have is done. You can rule by fear, certainly. But every single student I teach will know how to avoid any tactic that you can put forward, I will make certain of it. It has been now posted that you are alliance griefers. Before it was just Eve, now you're griefers. Think about it. I want to qualify what I'm saying through my red haze of anger that before, I really was not concerned with BoB. As a force you were to be respected, but like most rich pilots, they were pinatas that pop harder with better loot. Now you will be known as cheaters. You could have said something to assuage your guilt. You could have let someone know what was going on but you didn't. You are guilty as charged and deserve any reprimands that you recieve. From this day until the end of Eve, BoB will be known as cheaters, and no forum-whoring, no backpedaling, no spin, will be able to change that. As a member of BoB, I want you to keep this in mind. Everything you have built may be for nought. Please consider your posts carefully, perhaps something can be salvaged from the wreckage.... You know, posts like yours is why the community that's going mad is viewed as 9 year olds on meth. Why don't you try writing your frustrations in a non-paranoid insane ramblings way? That way, someone might actually take you serious. I take him seriously. Trust of something any corporation should cherish. Try it, do something that jeopardize the credibility of your corporation, your RL place of work... then see what happens to you.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.11 01:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Hudson does even 95% of the playerbase know about this or care? i for 1 dont care, the 1 guy..1 guy !!! got caught and returened what he stole. BoB as a whole r not cheaters and i think anyone that says so are bitter little souls. According to what I have read, he didn't returned crap. And the "one guy" ammount applies to 'how many got caught'. Neither of us can say it was the only one.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.11 02:03:00 - [8] Is this one the BPO in question?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.11 04:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Viki Girl Originally by: VENOM2k99 Now it's clear for all of us that BOB took avantage, for many of us, they dominate because of that. That Sabre BPO have to be the rarest and most unique BPO in game... oh come one, you seriously think that BOB only was able to kick every single aliances ass ad win all turnament because there were a Dev in one of it's corps ? Yeh right... sure.. I tell you a secret.. there were devis in ASCN as well.. tare are devs in goons and red, and even in LV... because as the devs said, they love this game and they play this game... That would explain why alliances have all T2 bpos. Many people even won the "lottery" 2 and 3 times. Random lottery, yeah right.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.11 05:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Tanis Bastar OK, I've got another theory, which was already brought up by someone on this thread--the timing strongly suggests that the failure to deal with this in the summer is connected to the deal with White Wolf. I was talking with a corp-mate on the phone an hour ago, telling him about this thread. He knew nothing about it. It took him 10 seconds to reach the same conclussion. Can't prove it, but it does make sense indeed.

Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.11 17:28:00 - [11] I also believe the T2 lottery have to go. It creates items that not everyone can have. Those items, the T2 BPOs are the I win buttons of eve. Their power is so strong that it seduced a dev into risking his job. Please eliminate the lottery. Seed those BPOs in the market and be done with it. T2 BPO owners will be mad but they are not the mayority of the player base and they have billions already. It was bad enough that a pure bit of LUCK could make your wallet's balance infinite. And it's even worst if that random 'LUCK' can be shifted toward an specific alliance. It stinks. Among the player base there was always the feeling that the T2 lootery was not so 'RANDOM'. Every time we saw somebody posting about winning multiple BPOs we doubted the randomness of the system. Now we see a Dev being cought with 6 T2 BPOs. Come on, the lottery has to go.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 01:34:00 - [12] I wonder what would be Hippoking's opinion about all this ... I also wonder if Killer8 will make a new movie
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 04:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Look, I can understand what you are trying to get at, but ultimately this is another call to regulate them in a way that they end up not being knowledgeable about how all aspects of the game works in practice. You may convince a few teenagers with that argument. But the truth is you don't need the devs playing the game to know how the game works. Like the "mistery shoopers" many stores use, hire some 'game testers'. Pay them to play the game and provide input to the devs. But the devs should not be the testers and the testers should not have dev access to the inner workings of the game. If devs really need to test a feature, game mechanics or something similar, they can do it on sisi. That's what sisi is there for.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 04:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Cosmic Blunder A person who commits an illegal action punishable with jail sentance, .... Prof or STFU. You know, if I were K, I would be planing on sueing ur arse. What you just did is call difamation. And it is punishable by law. It doesn't matter if it was in the middle of a posting frensi. "Donald Trump Vs Rosie O'Donnell" anyone?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 05:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia When you can name me an MMO that doesn't have its devs playing it (heavily), you can lecture me on the subject, until then, I'll take the word of MMO devs who have stated its suicidal to not play the game you work on. Is not suicidal dude. They just say that because, of course, they like to play and don't wanna be banned from doing it. But since you seem to be very literate about how game developers work and how important is for them to play the games they work on, yada yada. I'm going to ask you something: Have you read Masters of Doom ? In there you can see how one developer got addicted to play the game instead of working on making it better. The 2nd dev stayed focused. Read the book and see wich one of the 2 devs got booted out of the company. Tell me wich one move forward and made quake. Tell me wich one is now driving ferraris and playing with big rockets. Tell me all that and then talk about 'lecturing'. Right back at ya!
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 05:20:00 - [16] How it comes that most of the succesfull corps/alliances are the ones saying "please forget about this, let it go...". Why you don't want us expresing our opinion that devs should not play. Do you have devs in your ranks? Is that why you are defending them so much? Think about it, most people saying "it was only a crapy bpo" are known t2 bpo owners (with multiple t2 bpos). Why you want us to stfu? how did you obtained your t2 bpos? I can think of a few reasons why you may want us to stfu and even quit the game.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 05:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Koloch Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: Malthros Zenobia When you can name me an MMO that doesn't have its devs playing it (heavily), you can lecture me on the subject, until then, I'll take the word of MMO devs who have stated its suicidal to not play the game you work on. Is not suicidal dude. They just say that because, of course, they like to play and don't wanna be banned from doing it. Dev's must play the game, but I would say they are focusing more on the social aspects of the game vrs. actually testing. I just don't understand the reason for Dev's to stick with one character. It would make more sense to me to have the Dev's spawn a new character every 4 months or so each time with a different race spec. The reason that Tuxford isn't forced to fly Amarr for 4 months straight is something I'II never understand. If they are calling it testing then that's what they should be doing. While my original opinion is different than yours, I find yours acceptable. I could live with that. Let the 'testing' be just that, 'testing'.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 05:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus ...bla blah... to make a year old incident with little to no impact on the game ...blah blah Stealing a sabre bpo is little or no impact? Dude, if I had won that BPO one year ago, I can assure you it would have made a HUGE impact for me. It's been said by owners of the same BPO that it gives about 400M a week in earnings, easy. Manufacture/Sell AFK, I don't even have to be logged in to make money with a T2 BPO. Dude, I could have billions by now. And with those billions I could have bought more T2 BPOs. Some days ago I saw the 10MN MWD T2 BPO on sale at 5B. I could have bought it. But I didn't won the sabre, or the T2 ammo BPOs. A Dev stole them. And you call that a little incident? No impact? Move along, nothing to see?
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:21:00 - [19] I have expressed my opinion that Devs should not play the game. One counter argument I received was that dev should be allowed to play to test the social aspect of the game. I've given much tought to that because it seemed like a reasonable thing that made sense. But after consideration, I came to the conclusion that testing the social aspect of the game really falls into marketing, NOT application development. Marketing Guy != Application Developer I went further and downloaded several curriculums from different colleges to see the differences between a marketing and a programming degree. They are huge. So leave the developers on sisi testing the technical side of things. They should not play or socialize with regular player to avoid conflict of interest.

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